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Hybrid of Hope?
July 23rd 2005, 04:35 CEST by Mank

Could there be a true hybrid lurking in the near future?


Planetside uses the PvP FPS model, but instead of becoming better with level, players become better with practice. The main thing -level- does, is allow you to switch between more item sets. A player coming out of the tutorial has enough battle rank to kick the crap out of a higher level player who might not have spent the time to practice with those higher level items. Planetsides system seems to be the best step forward in the future of any new MMOFPS.

There are a few problems that exist with making a persistant MMOFPS where level and skill might replace the 'twitch' aspect of FPS games as they now exist. The biggest hurdle would be the implementation of a system that didnt rely on the mouselook/aiming input system. Popular opinion seems to be that any FPS has to use the conventional mouselook/aiming mechanic to be a true FPS.

I think it's entirely possible that a MMOFPS could maintain the first person perspective in combat, but I'm not sure if there is a solution to the server resolution(client data) issues(of a massively multiplayer FPS). Another issue would be the type(s) of RPG elements used, and the overall effect on the players willingness to remain persistant in the game world. IMHO, any form of level treadmills or skill trees would not be very popular as the means of maintaining persistance in the game world. Replacing the 'twitch' factor that FPS players thrive on, with a mechanism that rewards over time, is definately the hard part. On the other side of that coin are the elements needed to draw the RPG players to a FPS perspective game, and keep them.

FPS's are PvP by proxy of the deathmatch elements contained in each and, the playing field has to be the same for everyone without exception. The introduction of RPG elements would have to be implemeted in a way where the player is rewarded for their persistance, while at the same time maintaining positive control of the power differential in the core gameplay.

There are a few games in the works that look very promising:

Twilight War
 
Tabula Rosa

If you read the FAQ's for these games, it becomes apparent that these companies are thinking outside the mold when it comes to some of the features that are listed for these games. Definately interesting....if, and when, they ever come out..=)


A couple of questions:

Would a PvE combat system be preferable over a PvP system, or a mixture of both?

What types of RPG elements would you desire in such a game?

Discuss! =)
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#64 by Artur
2005-07-25 03:40:48
Flash it. Or reinstall DirectX.
#65 by Marsh Davies
2005-07-25 03:43:35
www.verbalchilli.com
Useful answers appreciated.

#66 by Artur
2005-07-25 03:54:20
Try here. Remember that PATCHING YOUR DRIVE IS ONLY HALF THE JOB!!!
#67 by Marsh Davies
2005-07-25 04:06:40
www.verbalchilli.com
Enh. I've tried flashing firmware before on the advice of forum members before. It resulted in a oversized smoking beige paperweight. Is this really the only solution? Like I said, it shouldn't even be complaining about regions; it has one change left.

(Thank you nonetheless, Artur, for your pithy pity.)

#68 by G-Man
2005-07-25 04:19:37
Artur gave you the perfect fucking advice. He even linked the best goddamn site for the job. JUST DO WHAT HE SAYS!
#69 by Artur
2005-07-25 04:53:23
You can also steal/buy a copy od AnyDVD. There might be some free alternatives, but I'm not sure which ones will help you with your specific problem.
#70 by Funkdrunk
2005-07-25 05:08:04
jflavius@bellatlantic.net
There is also DVD Region Free as well.

Funk.

I lie awake
Iíve gone to ground
Iím watching porn
In my hotel dressing gown
#71 by Marsh Davies
2005-07-25 10:51:18
www.verbalchilli.com
You beautiful people.

#72 by lwf
2005-07-25 10:51:53
By the way it did suck quite a bit.

"Then I see his eyes glaze over and I can see it going through his mind: 'Oh my God, I'm going to fuck Marilyn Monroe,' and he can't get it up."
#73 by E-ph0nk
2005-07-25 12:03:42
http://www.electrophonk.be
It didn't totally suck, but it's not a good movie.

#74 by Jibble
2005-07-25 15:49:49
Yeah, I won't say it totally sucked.  One reviewer on Rotten Tomatoes summed up my feelings on it pretty well: "May be the most efficiently built engine of escalating terror you will ever encounter. But Spielberg's technique serves no purpose this time except the visceral."

Like I said, good terror.  Spielberg has a gift for building an atmosphere of hopelessness, desperation, and utter fear.  Beyond that, though, the movie fell a bit flat.

SANTAK, BANKOROK, TOMATO!
222 lbs.  42 to go.
#75 by Warren Marshall
2005-07-25 15:56:28
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
That was the best part about the movie for me ... the feeling of "we're fucked" that pervaded it the whole way through.  Nobody stopped to fight the aliens or put up resistance - just run and do whatever you can to avoid death.
#76 by Jibble
2005-07-25 15:59:24
That was certainly well done.  Greatly depressing, really.

SANTAK, BANKOROK, TOMATO!
222 lbs.  42 to go.
#77 by lwf
2005-07-25 15:59:44
That movie jumped the shark when Tom Cruise's gay son joined the army.

"Then I see his eyes glaze over and I can see it going through his mind: 'Oh my God, I'm going to fuck Marilyn Monroe,' and he can't get it up."
#78 by Jibble
2005-07-25 16:01:06
The ending brought back painful memories of the ending to A.I.

SANTAK, BANKOROK, TOMATO!
222 lbs.  42 to go.
#79 by lwf
2005-07-25 16:02:46
I didn't see AI.

"Then I see his eyes glaze over and I can see it going through his mind: 'Oh my God, I'm going to fuck Marilyn Monroe,' and he can't get it up."
#80 by Warren Marshall
2005-07-25 16:05:38
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
What I couldn't understand about the ending was what the hell was going on in that house?  Were they all in there having Sunday dinner or something?  I mean, they came out all dressed nicely and he's standing there looking like he's been dragged through hell and back.  Very odd.
#81 by Sgt Hulka
2005-07-25 16:06:31
Nothing compares to the pain of watching the end of A.I.

#82 by lwf
2005-07-25 16:07:29
I thought the same thing Warren. I was like what the fuck? Fuck you, Boston.

"Then I see his eyes glaze over and I can see it going through his mind: 'Oh my God, I'm going to fuck Marilyn Monroe,' and he can't get it up."
#83 by Jibble
2005-07-25 16:13:25
[SPOILERS]

Well, to me it seemed like a stab at Boston, like "Boston sucks so hard the aliens didn't even bother destroying anything there."  I mean, Ray lived in some shitty suburb in New Jersey and the whole thing was leveled, but they get to Boston and the only damage is where the machines have fallen over into buildings.  That, and the "Oh, I wonder if the son made it out alive?!" with his son.

Then there's all the throwaway characters.  I kind of felt like there was more story to get into with the news crew and the friend of Ray's, but I know Spielberg was trying to keep it focused on how Ray's family was experiencing things.  But then he goes and leaves out the story behind how the hell his son made it to Boston after running into a valley shortly before the entire thing goes up in flames.

[/SPOILERS]

SANTAK, BANKOROK, TOMATO!
222 lbs.  42 to go.
#84 by CheesyPoof
2005-07-25 17:28:08
Saw Episode 3 again. It was even better the second time.
#85 by Hugin
2005-07-25 17:55:05
lmccain@nber.org
Is IRC down?
#86 by lwf
2005-07-25 17:59:04
I can't get in. So, yes.

"Then I see his eyes glaze over and I can see it going through his mind: 'Oh my God, I'm going to fuck Marilyn Monroe,' and he can't get it up."
#87 by yotsuya
2005-07-25 18:14:34
Poof-

It's even better the fourth time.

RE: War of the World

I know Spielberg wanted to keep it a character piece, but I would much rather have seen how the world in general dealt with the aliens. I love the 50s original and how they showed a panicked world.

Don't you have a pretend girlfriend to not be fucking right now, loser?
#88 by Anonymous
2005-07-25 18:46:07
I also wonder why Cruise had to kill Tim Robbins in an over-dramatized scene after all the huge geckos left the old house.

#89 by Warren Marshall
2005-07-25 18:57:30
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
I also wonder why Cruise had to kill Tim Robbins in an over-dramatized scene after all the huge geckos left the old house.

He wanted to spare him from having to play that character any longer.
#90 by eggbert
2005-07-25 19:04:59
http://www.stuffresearch.com
Speaking of things that are filmed, what's up with the Battlestar Galactica DVD situation? Apparently the DVD that's coming out this week is actually a "Best Buy exclusive". It also costs $50 for 13 episodes, which is almost like HBO pricing (but there you're actually getting a full hour per episode). Not completely outrageous, but still pretty pricey. Supposedly the non-exclusive comes out many months from now and contains the mini series. What kind of fucked up sales model is that? Now I can't buy this out of principle, I can't support Best Buy attempting to kill the capitalistic model that lets me buy http://www.deepdiscountdvd.com/dvd.cfm?itemID=IMA000061Short Circuit[/url] for $6 shipped...
#91 by eggbert
2005-07-25 19:06:07
http://www.stuffresearch.com
sunvabitch
#92 by Trolly McTroll
2005-07-25 19:22:25
Because Battlestar Gallacticca sucks ass and they know they'll only sell three copies to the "special" people.

We now return to your regularly scheduled faggotry. - BJB
#93 by Marsh Davies
2005-07-25 19:28:39
www.verbalchilli.com
I thought the restricted focus on Cruise was exactly what made it good. It was so refreshing not to have cuts to the Pentagon and Big Ben being knocked down or whatever. It was single-mindedly describing the horror from the perspective of one man, and I kind of liked that clarity of purpose. Even the camera was ducking, hiding, glancing back over the shoulder. There were, for example, no aerial shots of the Tripods, except when the characters we were following gained a vantage point. It was so focused, that I really didn't care why the aliens were attacking, or how they got there, or even particularly why they died. I just wanted Cruise and family to run and survive. The ending was meh, but the film successfully evoked enough relief that I didn't care too much about the saccharine conclusion.

Sure, it had a number of bum notes (the boy should have died!), and the science of it doesn't bear re-examination outside the context of an early 20th century level of knowledge, but I found that it was totally successful in sweeping me along in the atmosphere of it.

And there were some great moments - the train on fire, the river full of bodies, the riot over the car, the tripods towering on the hill as people crammed onto the boat. I agree with the guy Jibble quoted that it served little purpose other than the visceral, but I came out with the impression that Spielburg's jettisoning of all else was an intentional and bold stylistic move and, regardless, I admire it for the efficacy with which it ploughed that one furrow.

#94 by jjohnsen
2005-07-25 19:47:22
http://www.johnsenclan.com
Other than Cruises son being alive, nothing really bothered me in the movie.  Tom Cruise may be a wacko, but I'm usually happy with his movies.

Actually, the liberalism of the media - as a general thing - IS a major fallacy. What the media is, is a whore.  -LP
#95 by McBain
2005-07-25 19:56:46
What I couldn't understand about the ending was what the hell was going on in that house?  Were they all in there having Sunday dinner or something?  I mean, they came out all dressed nicely and he's standing there looking like he's been dragged through hell and back.  Very odd.

Because Tim Robbins kills Cruise in that house and everything that happens afterwards is dead Cruise dreaming in heaven.

Kid: Because you went to the bathroom on mommy's dishes?
Willie: What the fuck? No!
#96 by Jibble
2005-07-25 19:58:06
OMG you just blew my mind.

SANTAK, BANKOROK, TOMATO!
222 lbs.  42 to go.
#97 by Trolly McTroll
2005-07-25 20:52:46
Tom Cruise may be a wacko, but I'm usually happy with his movies.


You're right, he's a major wacko, and it's not his movie, it's Spielbergs.

We now return to your regularly scheduled faggotry. - BJB
#98 by yotsuya
2005-07-25 22:14:12
I did like the burning train. That was the creepest thing in the film.

Don't you have a pretend girlfriend to not be fucking right now, loser?
#99 by Jibble
2005-07-25 22:18:23
The burning train scene was multi-purpose, so I really liked it for that.  It was ominous and scary as hell, but also showed the people just waiting there and watching it pass, then going "calmly" back to their survival instinct.  No panic and running away.  Very much accented that people had grown used to seeing horrific things by that point.

SANTAK, BANKOROK, TOMATO!
222 lbs.  42 to go.
#100 by Penguinx
2005-07-25 22:46:51
Couch bomb!

"Cablanasian... wha de fack is that??? das wha jesus was?" - larafan
#101 by schnee
2005-07-25 23:36:22
david@snowdesign.com
Please sir, step awaaay from the Google.

Gawd wuz a dream of good gubmint.
#102 by Penguinx
2005-07-25 23:37:52
It was a link off of Something Awful. I wasn't looking that up.

"Cablanasian... wha de fack is that??? das wha jesus was?" - larafan
#103 by Ds_
2005-08-01 01:41:37
roger.boal@gmail.com
remotely on topic, ever tried World War II online?
#104 by Jibble
2005-08-01 04:02:43
Sucks.

SANTAK, BANKOROK, TOMATO!
222 lbs.  42 to go.
#105 by jjohnsen
2005-08-01 04:31:31
http://www.johnsenclan.com
I didn't even realize it was still going.

Actually, the liberalism of the media - as a general thing - IS a major fallacy. What the media is, is a whore.  -LP
#106 by Dumdeedum
2005-08-11 23:14:53
http://www.dumdeedum.com
New Quake 4 Trailer

Well I'm not sure trailer is really the right word, I suspect they just hit "record" and grabbed some random footage before heading out the door to Quakecon.

MP3 Of The Week: Mano Negra - Mala Vida.mp3 (?)
#107 by Warren Marshall
2005-08-12 01:53:53
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Yeah ... looks like they took a Quake3 level and tarted it up a little.

#108 by Matt Perkins
2005-08-12 04:50:17
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
I liked the level a lot...the gameplay though looked very doom.  Guess we'll see.  Though Quake4 isn't a very big draw for me anyway...Quake Wars on the other hand.  Can't wait.

"Of course, libertarians are a special breed because they can't explain their beliefs to anyone, even each other, without sounding like batshit crazy lunatics." - Shadarr
#109 by Your Friend
2005-08-15 20:21:13
Quake 4 sounded great to me when they first announced it but the more I see of it, the more it looks like "Doom 3: With Stroggs!" rather than a real sequel to Quake 2.

WTF, Caryn?

Someday we'll find it, the rainbow connection,
The lovers, the dreamers, and me.
#110 by Ergo
2005-08-15 20:25:02
I'm looking froward to Prey. What's funny is that the game was announced after DNF, dropped, then licensed to another company and will be out BEFORE DNF.

"Every sect as far as reason will help them, gladly use it; when it fails them, they cry out it is a matter of faith, and beyond reason." --John Locke
DVDs
#111 by Chunkstyle
2005-08-15 21:10:15
I'm looking forward to Quake 4.  And Prey.  Really just looking forward to a good PC game.

Game Developers: Don't forget the zombie monkeys.
#112 by Marsh Davies
2005-08-15 21:16:20
www.verbalchilli.com
The movies of Quake 4 haven't wowed me yet. The Strogg don't seem to have much in the way of smart do they? The Prey footage has sold me totally, though. Just the things they are doing with gravity will make the game worth playing. I also enjoyed seeing a small child impaled through the belly.

#113 by Caryn
2005-08-15 21:36:16
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
#109 Your Friend
Quake 4 sounded great to me when they first announced it but the more I see of it, the more it looks like "Doom 3: With Stroggs!" rather than a real sequel to Quake 2.

WTF, Caryn?

Quake 4 is very different in a few ways, and I think the stuff shown from QuakeCon shows that. DOOM 3 takes place entirely inside in deliberately small, dark, claustrophobic environments. DOOM 3 also is very "lone wolf" focused -- it's just you, and only in rare instances do you interact with any characters.

Quake 4 has you playing a named character (Matthew Kane) who's a marine in a very large corps. You almost always have squad companions, or you run into squads in need of defense who help you for a bit, or things like that. Much of the action takes place in huge outdoor environments where giant enemy mech walkers are stomping around you, where explosions are going off around you, and fighter planes are being shot out of the sky around you. It's just a very different game.

If it's available, try and find an archive of the Quake 4 single player presentation from QuakeCon that happened before Carmack's talk. We show off the opening cinematic, then we show a lot of the gameplay I described above, and we show the sequence where you as Matthew Kane are captured by the Strogg and end up getting partially Stroggified, which changes parts of your character and his abilities and in an integral part of the storyline.

Current novel status: 9500 words
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